walter Veith flat earth and matthew korpman

 I try so hard not to get involved with the stupidity that has become Adventist Today but it is so hard to leave it alone. But they have sunk to a new low. They have become the sponsor of a new YouTube video series. Here is what they say on Atoday website:

“Walter Veith is many things… but a “Flat Earther” isn’t one of the descriptions we usually associate with the controversial professor. Watch Bible scholar Matthew Korpman react to Veith’s refusal to call the earth round!

PS: Adventist Today is excited to be sponsoring Matthew’s latest YouTube videos. His stuff is thoughtful, informative and funny. We love it!”

This video is called “Walter Veith & the Flat Earth? Bible Scholar Reacts

I was unable to see in the description any evidence that Matthew Korpman is a Yale-trained Bible scholar, but I can say that he is talented at obfuscation. Instead of allowing Walter Veith to explain himself, he interrupts the video to make Matthew Korpman declarations as if they somehow are what Walter Veith is saying. A really poor method of communications, a simple technique to distort people’s opinions though, or to make fairly out-of-context statements by breaking up the statements to appear different than they were actually stated.

In This case, Matthew is attempting to take Walter Veith to task for not answering a question the way Matthew wants the question answered. Something many of us would like to do to other people but we know that is not how the world works. The one asked the question is the one that answers it and to be objective the listener then deals with what the answer actually was rather than complain about it not being answered the way you wanted to answer it.

Walter Veith opens himself open to this a lot of times because he is a long-winded person and thinks that he can take an opportunity to guide the listener into something else Veith wants to talk about. Which is actually the case in this video.

At about the 54 minute mark of the video Veith is asked the question about the flat vs. round earth and he precedes to give a couple of Ellen White quotes. That sets off Matthew, but amazingly enough, Matthew then says nothing about what the quotes actually say. Veith uses 3 or 4 maybe but the first one is all you need.

“Any kind of a theory or hobby that Satan can lead the minds of men to dwell upon he will draw their attention to so that they shall not be engaged in giving the solemn message for this time. Do not, my brother, become entangled with ideas that have no connection with the work for this time. It is better to be teaching the truth as it is in Jesus. Better to be seeking for true godliness, heart holiness, freedom from all selfishness, freedom from all envies and jealousies. It is better to pray and humble the soul before God and let the world, round or flat, be just as God has made it. Try most earnestly, by faithful continuance in well-doing, to seek for a clear title in the inheritance in the earth made new. Better lead the flock of God to drink at the higher streams, better by precept and example seek God while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. There is a revival needed in the church. When the teachers are drinking fresh draughts from the well of Bethlehem, then they can lead the people to the living stream. My soul is weighed down with the burden of the condition of things in New York. May the Lord raise up helpers, men whom He can teach, humble men whom He can lead to bear a clear, sharp testimony in faith.” Letter 43, 1887

I don’t really care that Matthew does not like Veith’s answer but you get no reason for not liking his answer if you ignore the Ellen White quotes he references.

Think about it, if you are being asked in 2020 by someone “is the earth round or is it flat”? You know immediately if someone asks that question they have a hobby horse of a theory that the world is flat. If those folks could be talked out of it, you would think that it would have easily have been done by now. Though with that particular question round does not even help as it could be flat and round as in a disk.

If Matthew had listened to the previous answer which was all about Ellen White as a prophet and would there or could there be another, a perceptive person could see that Veith answered the flat earth question after that to help enforce the wisdom of Ellen White as a telescope to the Bible. I am not here to support Ellen White or Walter Veith but to vilify the very dishonorable method of media manipulation that is used to entertain by presenting half-truths in a format that makes people think they have been given real information. Most people who read AToday sadly don’t pay enough attention to know they are being manipulated with false information Because after all these are good Christians they would not lie to us! Yes, even Christians lie and distort and the only protection is to question everything.

 Update: 2-4-2022

I posted a comment to the youtube page listed above stating that without using any of the information from the Ellen White quote you did not show the reason for Veith's answer and a link to my review above of his video. I checked this morning and my comment was deleted. Truth or conversation even is clearly not something that Matthew Korpman wants.

 

 

Women's Ordination and the quest for power

The Adventist church is currently all abuzz about the subject of women's ordination as Pastor/Ministers. Even if we agree to set aside the man created tradition of ordination and the idea that there should even be a head pastor at a particular church...both of which are concepts taken from the early Roman Catholic church. The question arises for the SDA church what to do when Conferences vote to ordain women as Pastors. At first some in the SDA church felt that playing word games would do as they “commissioned” instead of “ordaining” women. A semantic peculiarity which seems to have stalled the actual showdown for several years. But the showdown is now here as another Conference prepares to vote on the subject and like the previous Conference it will probably pass.

In an attempt to end this uprising of SDA church divisions (the SDA church has Conferences, Unions and Divisions for more details see this) The President of the SDA church who is elected by a popular vote of delegates at the convention but is assumed to be chosen by God because he was elected (sort of a divine right of kings concept) which again is based upon human traditions. As set forth his opposition to the ordination of women. His plea is to unity. Unity defined as submission to previous General Conference decisions.

[President Ted]Wilson quoted White’s statement in Testimonies to the Church, Volume 9, pages 260-261: “But when, in a General Conference, the judgment of the brethren assembled from all parts of the field is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be stubbornly maintained, but surrendered.”
He added that submission to the collective decisions of the world Church is an essential part of living in unity: “We have a worldwide administration; we have working policies – agreements we abide by collectively to provide for a strong push for the mission of the church. When we don’t see unity in what we are doing, then we see a fractious and divided spirit,” Wilson said.

The desire to control is pretty clear from Ted Wilson's comments here. He wants the Conferences to surrender to the will of the General Conference and somehow equates the community decision of the Conference vote as private independence and private judgment. Of course if Wilson had actually used the full quote his attempt at equating the Conference vote with private independence would be shown to be at odds with what Ellen White was actually saying.

“I have often been instructed by the Lord that no man’s judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any other one man. Never should the mind of one man or the minds of a few men be regarded as sufficient in wisdom and power to control the work and to say what plans shall be followed. But when, in a General Conference, the judgment of the brethren assembled from all parts of the field is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be stubbornly maintained, but surrendered. Never should a laborer regard as a virtue the persistent maintenance of his position of independence, contrary to the decision of the general body.

At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise plans and to restrict God’s work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has vested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.”

Ellen White's objection is to one man or small group of people acting as the General Conference or going against the General Conference. So it does not really fit any situation here as these Conferences are not really small groups of people. What it does try to do through manipulation of the Ellen White quotes is to assert supreme power in the General Conference and sadly the small group of people at it's head. So in simple terms he has turned the quote on its head to further his goals. What I have found is that people who misuse information in this way are; first not honest and second using the power of selective information as a tool of manipulation. It is often called propaganda today and since the first half of the twentieth century we have seen the devastating effect of propaganda, even so it has become common place in politics, church politics not being an exception. Though if people took Paul's advice to study things out like the Bereans propaganda would have only a negative effect upon them, which is how it should be, we should deal with factual information and reject those who twist information.

The question of Women's ordination will ultimately come down to two things. First are women due equal pay for equal work. Second can such work as women Pastors be Biblically acceptable. In many places around the world the answer to the first is no they won't pay women equally and the answer to the second is no women must not be Pastors because they must be submissive to men or a man. This is generally the view of the third world countries. In other parts of the world First and Second world equal pay is expected and women can be Pastors as the cultural attitudes of the first century is not expected to have been forever enthroned because it is mentioned in the Bible. (for those who don't know First world is defined as the Western World, it is of cold war era where first world is US aligned and Second world is Soviet aligned and Third world are the none aligned countries, but today is still has some geographical meaning see this.)

The issue is not unity as in a culturally divergent world there really is no unity. Unity in the cause of Christ is noble but unity to traditions and cultures which are foreign to us can not possibly by called unity. It is sadly an argument of power based upon misinformation. From my perspective those who traffic in misinformation are usually on the wrong side of truth, and thus on the wrong side of right doing.