Larry Geraty on Seeking What They Sought Podcast

 I watched the recent Seeking what they Sought podcast today. It was mostly about Larry Geraty's involvement with the writing of the Fundamental belief on the Sanctuary in the 1980 Fundamental beliefs. Not too important until they asked Geraty about what he believes about the Sanctuary doctrine which to him is that there is someday a future Judgment and Christ is the Judge and 1844 is nothing at all. In other words, he is in line with most all the rest of Christianity. Then he is asked the following:

From the Transcript (edited for clarity):

1:11:40 (Sean speaking) "you know when we talk about it Ellen white, can she be a prophet, Larry and  have gotten things objectively wrong? [skip crosstalk some other interjections of little value] (Larry Geraty) no I think that your question is uh can a 1:12:42 prophet make a mistake and still be led by God and be valuable and I think that we look back in history you know the New Testament and the Old Testament were all those prophets perfect no many of them 1:12:54 made mistakes uh but that didn't mean that they weren't an important part of the building blocks that we build on as we move forward so uh I think it's it's better to admit a mistake than to spend endless hours trying to justify and look for reasons why you were right you know but um um"

So, to Larry Geraty a supposed prophet can make a huge mistake of saying that the Adventist doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, which was supposedly begun with the judgment of the dead saints in 1844, since the anticipated second coming of 1844 did not occur and something big must have happened because they could not have been wrong on their date setting. It was simply not true and just a mistake that the same prophet in the next 70 or so years never corrected. Or if you really believe that the confirmation of that doctrine came from God to Ellen White, that God never corrected it! That doctrine and all the sundry attached doctrines that caused so much distress in Adventism and so much dissension, and still causes dissension today as well as another strange teaching called Last Generation theology, which asserts a generation of sinless people to usher in the second coming was somehow valuable. 

No wonder they pulled the book "Reclaiming the Prophet". If he is an example of one of the authors'  writers' logic, that book would have been a laughing stock inside and outside of Adventism.

Tim Gillespie and the confusion of Present Truth

 I just discovered this podcast called "Seeking What They Sought" on Youtube. I watched a few of them and it is interesting. I am going to comment on the one I watched today which was: What is an Adventist, talking with Tim Gillespie. I always find it interesting when a Progressive SDA uses the term "Present Truth" I think they don't really know what it means historically. First, let's look at the transcript: 

Jesse: 19:37 this a little bit I I'm curious about if you were to to look at adventism and 19:43 Define it or like make maybe say more so what makes an Adventist what would you 19:49 say what is it what does it mean to be an Adventist

Tim Gillespie: um so I think an Adventist is someone who doesn't 19:55 believe in settled truth um we believe in present truth we're 20:02 non-creedal so we're a group of people we should be as I understand it a group of people who are constantly seeking a better expression and a better understanding of truth. 

[A little later he says]: said as Adventist I don't know that we believe in settled truth I've never heard that before my understanding is that we believe in present truth the way 20:57 that God is continuing to unfold truth um and so I think I think Seventh-day… 

He continues on a couple of other points, second coming, Sabbath, and prophetically speaking to people. So what he apparently believes is that Present Truth is a potentially constantly changing truth. But of course, if the truth changes the previous version was not the truth, so logically one should not call something truth if it may change. Truth is reality it is not a belief about something. One could say "Present belief", that would make sense but not present truth (see article Present truth propaganda for more on how to correctly use Present truth as a specific application of a truth to a specific circumstance.

 Unfortunately, historically Present Truth was more a term of advertising to other Christians that our beliefs were the true beliefs. So it was what the church believed was present truth. The term did not originate with Adventists. People who use the term Present Truth should take a look at my article on the subject.

 https://cafesda.blogspot.com/2012/12/present-truth-propaganda.html

At one point he points out the fallacy of present truth:

should be careful about quoting him but I believe what he said to me was present truth that's why that's why I'm an 23:49 Adventist to which I replied and I don't know that he appreciated this um but I 23:54 replied oh awesome what are you gonna let go of  I mean there are things that are 24:01 mutually exclusive correct we can't just if truth is if 24:07 we believe in present truth and we are led to another truth it may preclude a previous truth that we had it 24:14 may be something that our you know there may be truths that are mutually exclusive for instance for instance it... [he moves off on a poor example]

Ultimately what he is saying is that there really is no such thing as Present Truth but there are present beliefs but one of the first things that makes up an Adventist is holding to Present Truth which can always change and thus never was truth. So one of the key characteristics for of an Adventist is they believe in the lie known as Present Truth. Confusing right? The reason I think he does this is to form a connection to Adventist tradition and Ellen G. White. This is why I constantly point out this misuse of the term Present Truth. But there is one more thing that the next AI summaries present and that is that Adventism is not the only church to hold to the term present truth it was used a good deal in the 1800's by various groups though not something one hears much from them anymore, again a reflection of how the connection to Ellen White dominates Adventist understandings.

Update: 5-19-24: Using Edge AI Copilot:

Question: Tell me a summary of what Ellen G. Whites means by the term "present truth"

Certainly! Ellen G. White used the term “present truth” to refer to the timely and relevant messages that God revealed to her during her ministry. Let me provide a summary based on her writings:

In August 1849, Ellen G. White wrote about the concept of “present truth.” She emphasized that it was her duty to share with others what God had revealed to her regarding the current state of affairs, trials, and temptations faced by believers. Here are the key points:

The Context: Ellen G. White believed that they were living in a significant time, with the coming judgments of God imminent. She felt compelled to convey the messages she received to help guide God’s people.

The Connection Between Commandments and the Shut Door: She asserted that the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ (which included the concept of the “shut door”) were inseparable. The time for the commandments to shine out with importance was when the door was opened in the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary (where the Ark containing the ten commandments was located). This door was opened in 1844 after the mediation of Jesus in the Holy Place was completed.

Testing on the Sabbath: Ellen G. White believed that the present test on the Sabbath could not occur until Jesus had passed within the second veil (the Most Holy Place). Christians who had fallen asleep before this event (before the door was opened in the Most Holy) were not held accountable for Sabbath observance. However, now that the door was open, the Sabbath truth was being tested.

Satan’s Tactics: She warned that Satan was actively trying to confuse God’s people. He attempted to open the door of the Holy Place (which Jesus had shut) and close the door of the Most Holy Place (which Jesus had opened in 1844). Satan aimed to keep minds wavering and prevent acceptance of the present sealing truth.

In summary, “present truth” refers to the timely messages and revelations that Ellen G. White believed were crucial for the believers of her time. These messages were closely tied to the commandments, the sanctuary, and the Sabbath truth1. It was a call to faithfulness and discernment during a critical period of history.

For more detailed reading, you can explore Ellen G. White’s writings on this topic here.2 📖

Learn more 1 egwwritings.org

2 text.egwwritings.org

3 whiteestate.org

4  egwwritings.org +2 more

Tell me a summary of what Charles Spurgen means by the term "present truth "? [interestingly I spelled Spurgeon without the "o" and it shouted at me the correct spelling:) ]

 Certainly! Charles Haddon Spurgeon, a prominent English preacher and theologian, also used the term “present truth” in his sermons. Let me provide a summary based on his writings:

1. Context and Definition:

   • Spurgeon believed that “present truth” referred to the essential and timely messages that were relevant to the current spiritual needs of believers.
   • These truths were not abstract or theoretical but had practical implications for Christian living.

2. Application:

   • Spurgeon emphasized the importance of preaching and teaching truths that directly addressed the challenges, temptations, and trials faced by believers in their daily lives.
   • He believed that the Holy Spirit guided preachers to proclaim the Word of God in a way that met the specific needs of their congregations.

3. Dynamic Nature:

   • “Present truth” was not static; it evolved as circumstances changed. Spurgeon encouraged pastors to be sensitive to the Spirit’s leading and adapt their messages accordingly.
   • The truths that were relevant in one era might not be the same in another. Therefore, preachers needed discernment to identify what God was emphasizing at any given time.

4. Faithfulness and Relevance:

   • Spurgeon urged ministers to be faithful stewards of the Gospel, ensuring that their preaching remained relevant to the present context.
   • He believed that God’s Word was timeless but needed to be applied afresh to each generation.

In summary, Charles Spurgeon’s concept of “present truth” emphasized the dynamic, relevant, and practical aspects of biblical teaching. It encouraged preachers to faithfully address the spiritual needs of their congregations in light of the ever-changing

 summarize what Mary Baker Eddy meant by the term "present truth"

Certainly! Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, used the term “present truth” in the context of her spiritual teachings. Let’s explore this concept:

1.      Definition of “Present Truth”:

o    Mary Baker Eddy believed that “present truth” referred to the spiritual insights and revelations that were relevant to the current moment.

o    These truths were not static but dynamically adapted to the needs of individuals and society.

2.      Application:

o    Eddy taught that divine truths were timeless but needed to be expressed in ways that resonated with the present circumstances.

o    She emphasized the importance of understanding God’s healing power, the unreality of material limitations, and the supremacy of spiritual reality.

3.      Christian Science Perspective:

o    In Christian Science, “present truth” involved recognizing the spiritual nature of existence and healing through prayer.

o    Eddy’s major work, “Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures,” conveyed these truths and their practical application.

4.      Continual Revelation:

o    Eddy believed that God’s revelation was ongoing and that individuals could receive fresh insights directly from divine Mind.

o    As humanity evolved, “present truth” would continue to unfold.

In summary, Mary Baker Eddy’s concept of “present truth” emphasized the dynamic, spiritually relevant insights that could transform lives and bring healing. It encouraged seekers to stay open to divine revelation and apply these truths in their daily experience¹². 🌟

Learn more

1marybakereddylibrary.org2marybakereddylibrary.org3mary-baker-eddy.com4footstepsoftruth.com5theguardian.com+3 more

 

Shortened relevant portions from the AI search

William Booth:

1.      The Concept of “Present Truth”:

o    Booth believed that certain biblical truths were relevant to God’s people at specific times in history.

o    These truths were not static but dynamically revealed by the Holy Spirit to guide believers in interpreting and applying God’s Word in the present moment.