There is an underlying corrupt philosophy inside many Seventh-day Adventists. It appears whenever they are given power and power over ideas. Somehow once given some authority over others in the realm of ideas certain Adventist forget even about their own rules or guidelines and take upon themselves extra responsibility to protect other Adventists. I saw it effectively destroy SDAnet.com when the moderators became petty tyrants and now I see it happening over on the blogs at AToday.com.
Here is just one example of a recent experience I had there. Of course when I did write them of my complaint the natural behavior of the corrupt is to ignore their responsibilities and hide their activities. Which would have happened to most others who go through this type of moderator abuse, but I have learned a few things along the road dealing with Adventist gatekeepers.
In reply to part 5 in Herb Douglas' series on Emergent Churches I posted the following as it appears on the Atoday website:
"Re: What Authority Do You Trust Most? (Emerging Church, ...
On May 28th, 2010 RonCorson says:
You ask Gary to give you examples when you have now done a series of 5 articles with practically no examples to back up your assertions. In this article's examples you give go against your opening premise in this article.
[attempt to steer discussion to another website deleted by moderator]
What you call Bible authority is acceptance of your definition of what the Bible says. The conversation you don't like is about what does the Bible say to you (others) and what does it mean to you (others) in your (their) situations. What you call Bible authority is when you or your church or your philosophical division of the church declare this is what the Bible means to you and that is what it should mean to everyone and if you don't accept that you are rejecting what is holy.
There is little doubt that traditional Christianity is in desperate need of redefinition actually I thought that was what Adventism originally tried to do, now it appears such ideas are anathema"
What was cut out was a sentence or two from my article on the first 4 posts of Herb's series. Instead of allowing the quote and the link the moderator removed my quote and the link to my article. Of course there is nothing wrong with posting links it is a common blog practice and certainly allowed in Atoday.com's guidelines which state under comment guidelines:
Here are our comment guidelines, which is posted for all registered readers when making a comment. Please make sure your comments follow our guidelines, or they will be edited or deleted before being published:
* No profanity.
* No personal attacks.
* Absolutely stay on the topic that began a given blog or article.
* No copying and pasting whole articles from other websites. Use the link button to refer the reader there.
* Repetitive rants and tirades for or against any particular point of view is highly discouraged. Nobody likes repeated tongue-lashings from condescending know-it-alls.
As you can tell there is not restriction against posting links, it is in fact preferred. Yet my usage was perfectly acceptable per their rules but declared by some no name moderator to be an; "attempt to steer discussion to another website" If that was an acceptable reason why would the guidelines state use the link button to refer the reader to other websites?
Here is what I submitted to the comment section, I of course don't know who the moderator is or if they have several, what I do know is that my comment was not posted and no one from Atoday responded, I wrote:
"Regarding the moderators comment:
[attempt to steer discussion to another website deleted by moderator]
How is quoting a small portion from my blog that is a response to Herb's first 4 articles on this subject an attempt to steer discussion to another website? Because I don't come in and create a 3 page comment?
But if that is they way you direct discussions so be it. I guess I should cease to link to Adventist today articles on my blog because surely you would not want me to steer discussions away from my articles to your articles. It is interesting to me that you folks don't seem to know how blogs work, I suppose it is a remnant of the editor as gatekeeper of information of the past when publications were on paper and only selected ideas were permitted. All this actually aside from the content of my blog article relates to the emergent church which uses modern media and is less encumbered by information gatekeepers of orthodoxy. But in fact I will actually continue to link to your articles because I care about my readers more than protecting my space with some sense of censorship."
It makes me think there is something deep in the Adventist mindset that is foul and opposed to allowing people to express themselves. It rather fits in with the last article I posted about the controversy in Collegedale. Of course we all know that my solution, my idea to bring something good out of the controversy will never be used. Because there is something insidious inside of the Adventist psyche and it boils to the surface all to often. The all wise gatekeepers most retain their power legitimately or not, right or wrong. That is a tragedy.
Update 6-05-10:
This morning I was reading through the Spectrum blog and found that the effort to maintain the gatekeeper mentality is active there as well. A Richard Meyers posted a comment and this is in part what Alex Carpenter one of the people in charge over at the spectrum blog wrote:
"Spectrum is really just folks who for a variety of educational, spiritual and experiential reasons tend to not go around telling other people what to believe as loudly. We also don't go around promoting our own site by taking advantage of others' open publishing policy like you did, Richard Myers. And yes, your URL has been removed."
The only offense was posting a link. Which I don't know if Alex realizes is still there attached to the name Richard Meyers. I have to get back to why are these Adventists so afraid to allow other people to link to other ideas on blogs when blogs are largely about linking to other material. That is how blogs work as a symbiosis to spread ideas or information. Nobody is forced to click on a link and even if they did if they don't like what they see they can quickly leave. It even has a term "bounce rate". In the SDAnet moderator problem I referred to it was conservative moderators who destroyed the content and here we are seeing those who proclaim to be progressive Adventists stifling the links of others for no valid reason. (I will admit that at Spectrum Progressive is not restricted to an adjective about Adventists but to political progressives as well and they do have a long history of hypocrisy and attempts to limit opposing views.)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
12 comments:
I think this sort of censorship is prevalent everywhere. What is disappointing is for Christians to behave this way. Judging what what is going on in the political world we can expect to see even more censorship because some people can't stand having their ideas challenged.
I was an Adventist for almost 20 years until the mark of the beast started creeping into the church.
Pinning up bunny rabbits for easter and Christmas trees in the church. I'm no goody two shoes by any means but it was ironic that they whip stones at the woman then bow down to her. I'm pretty sure Jesus is writing in the sand.
Any way I discovered 1844 was wrong. The vision in Daniel 8 begins with the angel describing the defeat of Darius III at the river Granicus by Alexander the Great after passover of 334 BC
Starting at the first Passover 333 BC forward 2300 years brings you to the tender branch shooting forth leaves. A sign to the final generation.
Revelation 10 is describing the Great disappointment of the great awakening period that began in the 1830s. Miller said, "There shall be time no longer..." The angel says no, not until the 7th angel sounds.
Was 1844 the last generation? Adventists have been asleep at the switch for 5 months (150 years)
333 BC + 2300 = 1967
Did anything happen in 1967 with the fig tree? Absolutely-The 6 day war when Israel, who only became a nation 19 years prior, took control of Jerusalem for the first time in.......over 2300 years.
Daniel 9 and the 70 week prophecy happened 30 years after Daniel was given his vision in chapter 8 - read it again - It begins with Alexander the Great.
It's about the truth, not saving face of a corrupt religion. 1844 was wrong and Revelation 10 predicted it.
No one challenges merely ideas when they challenge the truths that were given to the Adventist Church. This can be proven from the fact of last day special revelations given in the bible. The book of Daniel was to be unsealed. The exclusion of the other churches to witness and be part of this unsealing was not a choice the Adventist Church made. It was a choice that they made. In the last chapter of the book of Revelation is a condemnation to all who take the name of the Lord and who REFUSE to listen to, accept and expound upon the special last day messages.
But the "Progressive Adventists" have the same ideas all the other churches always have. There are Adventists who know they used to believe everything the "Progressive Adventists" are telling us they now believe and what we MUST believe. They, before becoming Adventists, disbelieved in the inspiration of Ellen White, disbelieved the Investigative Judgment, disbelieved Sunday worship would become the Mark of the Beast, etc.
We believe the Adventist Church received the truth. They prove it in their Revelation Seminars. If you disbelieve their conclusions, then run BETTER Revelation Seminars. But don't show them their truths are false by crying and whining day and night. People might realize that you actually don't respect a variety of opinions.
Michael Ray Hulmes, your interpretation is wrong here.
The end of the 2300 days is when the Investigative Judgment started. This was after the power of the Little Horn was taken away. This precipitated greater bible study. It was at that time that the sealed book of Daniel was unsealed. That was when information about the Investigative Judgment was found. "Then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed." In the Ancient symbols there was warning before the Day of Atonement arrived which included Judgment. Just after the Little Horn which "cast the truth down to the ground" was restrained, then came the great announcement through the Millerite Movement that "the hour of his judgment is come" Revelation 14:7. At that time all the other churches showed contempt to the wisdom of the Lord in unsealing more and special revelations to His Remnant people. Since that was the very topic in discussion at the time in view of the Sanctuary in heaven, why would it take till 1967 for the 2300 days to finish and no event marking the Sanctuary or Judgment would come at that time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shc8BTkTL5k
What historical event happened in 1843 or 1844 to "mark" this Millerite claim?
In 1798, the pope was taken captive, In 27 AD, Jesus was baptized. In 457, the commandment went forth to rebuild Jerusalem by a gentile.
What historical marker happened in 1843 or 1844 to pinpoint your stretch of over 3 years including 1845. Ellen White also said Jesus would return then.
Daniel 8's vision came 30 years before Daniel was pondering the 70 weeks in Daniel 9.
Where in Daniel 8 does it say the 2300 years begins at 457 BC?
It doesn't....The angel clearly tells the saint who asks "How long...the vison"
Not the vision of....Those words are added....What vision? The vision that begins with Alexander the Great defeating Darius III at the "river" Granicus....Whare is the ram standing? At a river...Passover 333 BC to 1967 is 2300 Passovers exactly....
"There is no year zero..." is a ridiculous math snafu.
negative 15 + 16 according to Miller's genius math must be 2 right?
Get out a calculator and do -15 + 16 and see if you get 2.
457 BC is the same as 3543 from Adam...Now add 2300 = ??? 1844? NO!
3543 + 2300 = 5843
Revelation 10 prophesied the Millerite movement..."There shall be time no longer..." is rebuked in this chapter...and the angel clarifies that it would not be til the 7th angel sounds that the mystery of God would be FINISHED
Was the last generation 1844? What sign did God give us involving the fig tree exactly 2300 years after Alexander the great defeats Darius III at the "river" Granicus?
Daniel 8 says nothing about the 70 weeks or the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem....No historical event happened in 1843 accept a wrong prophecy interpretation that was written by John in Rev. 10
Why do you think Adventists have been stagnant for 150 years?
They wrote it down when they were told not to...Thou must prophesy again...
The 2300 days begins at Passover 333 BC and it's written i the earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ts6DesFtU
Michael Ray Humes, your speculations are still wrong. That's why you don't have any Revelation Seminars. You must not only attack God's people but you must expound upon those sacred scriptures and show how they fit in the special messages given by the Lord. That's where the warning comes against all who refuse to teach and preach the definite message given by the Lord for the Last Days. The book of Daniel was unsealed. Show us then the correct interpretation and where and when your revelation seminars are held.
You even know that others refuse to do this and work to add to the words of the prophet books and take away from them. You don't seem to have any warnings about this. Neither did any scripture tell you about the terrors of a dead prophet and the paranoia of God's people who see another character becoming very powerful!
BOLD PUBLIC DEATH THREATS AGAINST ALL NON-CATHOLICS HERE!
theirsecrets.info/ac/appealchapi.htm
Such things don't happen in my neighborhood all the time, and so I show much consternation even about this being publicly posted right after our climate of terror and the Patriot Act was searching for terrorists everywhere. This turned out to be a litmus test not only for treason and apostasy, but to point out the source for it.
Being very mindful that Christ is love, how is a Christian to view these threats? Well, everytime we found someone spueing lies on the internet we understood who they were, posted these threats and watched them attack us and ignore the threats.
The whole truth will be laid out by the True people of God, they will not only show dates, but clearly lay out the whole plan. You cannot do this. If you could, you would have had your Revelation Seminars. Knowing you cannot do this you remain to attack God's Church.
God gave a message for the last days in scripture that was sealed. His people will expound upon it. They do, and they do it in an organized way.
The tyranny of Rome was suppressed. Then, all of a sudden, a farmer named William Miller studied the sealed writings of Daniel and began to understand its meaning. It is because of the hatred of those sealed messages why so many propagandists can't tell that something major happened at that time. Adventists include these prophecies in their scriptural repertoire. Propagandists always exclude them, suppress them, and work for everyone else to do the same. This is a strike against the intelligence of the intelligences that graciously gave us these revelations.
Mr. Hulmes told us that Ellen White predicted Christ would come in 1845. Well that's the plight of a propagandist. She didn't say she had a vision that Christ was coming back at that time though she fully believed it. All the bible writers thought Christ was coming back in their day. Ellen White did predict though that all who disbelieved William Miller's messages were lost. That turned out to be true. While they were opposing and attacking the new sensation derived through opening up sealed scripture, they started to preach and teach that the book of Revelation was an incomprehensible mystery and discouraged everyone from studying it. The opponents of true Adventism in ecumenism and a One World Church have inherited this same disease with their intolerance hidden under rosy themes. The last chapter of the book of Revelation says that all who take away from its messages will have their names taken out of the book of life. Most Christians are still doing this just merely by their suppression of these scriptures with the maligning of the characters of those who love these revelations.
In 1843/44 is when a major unsealing of precious revelations given by the Lord were especially unsealed. They were wrong about the date of Christ's return, and just like the Disciples of Christ preached true repentance but also taught that Christ would set up His eternal kingdom at that time, EVERYONE who REFUSED to believe their message at that time were lost also. New meaning to scripture was found in 1843/44. The enemies of truth attacked the message AND WISHED TO BURY THE REVELATIONS. That is the inherited disease of the fallen churches today.
The bottom line is that Adventists have the story clearly laid out: not with snippet calculators and no message. They have a whole message shown in Revelation Seminars! They show a complete repertoire of scripture without giving any hatred to any. If Mr. Hulmes was proud of his knowledge and snippet calculator, he would have the whole sequence of events laid out and given meaning to the efforts of the whole story revealed in sealed scripture by the Divine beings who condescended to reveal them. He doesn't have whole seminars because he is really not that proud of his accomplishments.
The website:
http://www.Seventh-dayAdventism.com
clarifies all these issues.
Keep to the subject of the articles or your posts will be deleted.
Ron:
I find you doing here what you usually point out in others, you have the acts of a few moderators who have "power" and power is usually never a good thing, even in the hands of Christians (or Adventists).
You even allude to it in your opening paragraph and yet you use stereotypes like "...there is something deep in the Adventist mindset that is foul and opposed to allowing people to express themselves..."
Another "...Because there is something insidious inside of the Adventist psyche and it boils to the surface all to often..."
The real issue is how you respond,... I follow you and your blog because I admire your intellect, your creativity, your alternative viewpoints, your questioning of the status quo, and mostly because you make me think!
BUT you can get more with a carrot than a stick and your attempts to gain "justice" often end up sounding like attacks and rants instead of reason.
Try the carrot.
Bruce
Bruce, there is no such thing as a carrot when dealing with an unjust moderator. They simply ignore you. Which is what happened on the Adventist Today forum and happened on SDANET also. As the first comment showed it is probably not something restricted to Adventists. It is however in my experience frequently found in Adventist online discussion forums.
I further think my statements you quoted are being aptly demonstrated with the election of Ted Wilson as President as my latest post discusses.
It is a common practice for websites that allow comments to screen for spam by removing links. You may want to write out the the url like this: www dot website-address dot com
Post a Comment