Adventist Media Response and Conversation

Showing posts with label audio. Show all posts
Showing posts with label audio. Show all posts

Saturday, October 28, 2017

Ellen White believed and taught Penal Substitution atonement

I often listen to some of the Sabbath School studies on the internet that are generally opposed to the Penal Substitutionary view of the Atonement (I also disagree with the substitutionary view of atonement.) There are three in particular that I listen to. ComeandReason.com usually led by Dr. Tim Jennings. Ken Hart and Friends TV and The lesson study offered by PineKnoll

All three of these groups use a lot of Ellen White quotes. All three seem to cherry pick Ellen White statements so that they downplay her Penal Substitutionary views. Today 10/28/2017 on the ComeandReason lesson study lead this week by Lori Atkins, noted and tried to explain away an Ellen White quote that was used in the lesson study guide. You can listen or view here. Here is the lesson study quote which caused her to email Tim Jennings for guidance on how to deal with it (starting at about minute 36):

“Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner’s account. Christ’s righteousness is accepted in place of man’s failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son.” —Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, book 1, p. 367 lesson study guide for Oct 23


Their answer was to read some of the previous paragraphs and interpret them in the light of a more non-penal view. Apparently thinking that the Penal view theorists could not equally read those other paragraphs within the Penal view. In other words, she acted as if she had solved the problem but really did not even deal with the main paragraph problem. Their answer was to fall back to the levels of understanding and thinking that Ellen White was using the words of Penal Substitution to lead them out of Penal Substitution. Which might have some merit if after using the Penal terms than showing a different or better way of looking at things, which of course Ellen White does not do. It should be noted that most all Penal Substitution proponents incorporated the moral influence view with the penal view. Because when the Bible says it is His kindness that leads us to repentance it is pretty hard to ignore that so most all of the atonement views will include the moral influence view but it is not their major component as it is with moral influence theory.

It is to my reading very obvious that Ellen White was a Penal Theorists when it comes to the atonement. I always wonder how these groups can use her so much and not realize this. Several years ago I compiled Ellen White quotes where she states her substitutionary view. Ellen White's quotes on Substitution.

Today I came upon a good dissertation on the subject A Comparative Study of the Concept of Atonement in the Writings of John R. W. Stott and Ellen G. White Lawrence O. Oladini Andrews University The Dissertation I think is pretty clear as it compares the Penal Atonement views of Stott and White.

Summary of Images of Atonement
Though she employs different images to present her understanding of the atonement, nevertheless, it is the penal-substitution theory that seemed to predominate in the writings of White on atonement. In her thought, this view is closely related to the satisfaction theory. Christ is the sinner‘s substitute who bore the penalty in order to satisfy the holy requirements of God‘s justice. It is usually in the context of penal substitution that she discusses the theme of justification by faith. Essentially her position is that God can justify sinners because Jesus has satisfied God‘s just requirement by both His perfect obedience to the law and by bearing the penalty of the broken law as the sinner‘s substitute.395 In this regard, White has written:
 Christ bore the penalty that would have fallen upon the transgressor; and through faith the helpless, hopeless sinner becomes a partaker of the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world through lust. . . . Christ rendered perfect obedience to the law, and man could not possibly obey the holy precepts had it not been for the provision that was made for the salvation of the fallen sons and daughters of Adam.396 

 Christ‘s substitutionary atonement originates in God‘s love for us. White argues that ―the atonement of Christ was not made in order to induce God to love those whom he otherwise hated; it was not made to produce a love that was not in existence; but it was made as a manifestation of the love that was already in God‘s heart.‖397 In her classic on the life of Christ, Desire of Ages, White has written on what Christ‘s substitutionary atonement involves. She writes, ―Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His.‖398 Therefore, the atonement originates from the love of God; God does not love us because of the atonement provided on the cross. 

 In light of her argument presented above, it is clear that White employs the different images of atonement (theories) in mutually complementary, but not contradictory, ways. Nevertheless, one must point out that the heart of her atonement thought centers in the concepts of penalty, substitution, and satisfaction. For the believer, the concepts of penalty, substitution, and satisfaction become the foundation of all significant victory over sin and sinfulness.399 Whidden concludes that ―the heart of her atonement thought revolved around the dialectic of law and grace, justice and mercy and the demonstration of this right relationship in the life of Christ—and ultimately—in the believer.‖400 In this way, the death of Christ becomes the basis of a universal vindication of God. The dialectic of justice and mercy permeates all that God does in the process of atonement.
This Dissertation also contains a good listing of the various atonement theories Similar to my old article (why did Jesus have to die) but more detailed.

Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Sabbath School audio lessons

I was thinking recently that there really should be a Progressive Adventist Sabbath School lesson discussion pod cast. So I decided to search the internet and see what Sabbath School pod casts (mp3 or streamed) are available for people to download and listen to. There really don’t seem to be many, the closest I could find were those which are based upon Graham Maxwell’s Larger View, AKA Great Controversy Trust and Healing model. Listed as follows:

The Sabbath School Lesson page of Dr. Jonathan Gallagher http://www.sabbathschoolonthemove.org/lessons.html
Ken Hart's Sabbath School Class is recorded weekly on the campus of Loma Linda University in the Randall Visitor Center at 11080 Anderson Street (at the corner of Anderson Street and University Court) in Loma Linda, California. Recordings and Handouts are provided here in multiple formats for your personal and group study. https://www.theox.org/index.cfm/pageid/615/index.html


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The following would consist of more traditional Adventist viewpoints:
Walla Walla University School of Theology present the Good Word hosted by Paul Dybdahl http://www.wallawalla.edu/academics/departments/theology/goodword/

Doug Batchelor’s ‘Central Study Hour’ Batchelor’s class is not a discussion at all more like a sermon, though he does have audience members read Bible verses.

The Denomination sponsors a couple of downloadable Sabbath School related programs:

A reading of the quarterly: Sabbath School Bible Study a pod cast service is brought to you by the South Pacific Division SDA quarterly weekly reading pod cast (mp3) audio recordings, in MP3 file format, of the Seventh-day Adventist Adult Bible Study Guide - Sabbath School lesson. Each file plays for about 40 minutes and is around 10mb in size. http://sspodcast.adventistconnect.org/ Streamed version at http://record.net.au/sabbath-school-bible-study

Sabbath School U is a weekly program produced by the Sabbath School and Personal Ministries covering a quarterly topic or theme. It follows the studies found at www.cqbiblestudy.org or http://www.sabbathschoolu.org/podcastlist.php or http://gcyouthministries.org/Resources/SabbathSchoolLesson/SabbathSchoolUPodcast/tabid/195/Default.aspx

Sabbath School U Colligate: http://cqbiblestudy.org/article.php?id=3

Hope Sabbath School Study See HopeTV.org for a schedule of when the class is broadcast. You can also subscribe to a podcast of the class to automatically download the video or audio in your own podcast feed reader. Teacher: Dr. Derek Morris
This runs a week behind unlike many of the other downloads which record their discussions earlier so that people can listen to the discussions before their local class,

And finally at Sharon Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Omaha, Nebraska the Sabbath School Department has a weekly Sabbath School Teachers Meeting. (does not post in advance of actual date thus you hear the last weeks lesson) http://pkwsabbathschoolwrap.podbean.com/